5160 steel
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5160 steel Hamma Head 08-15-2005
Posted by Martin H. Eastburn on August 17, 2005, 10:01 pm
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alvinj@XX.com wrote:
>
>>I looked it up in my phone book size "Metals Handbook" by ASM.
>>Page 156 has 5160..
>
>
> Cool I have one too. :) But mine don't have page numbers tho. :/
>
> Mine's copyright 1985 bought it through Enco.
>
> Do you see a "1.22% carbon steel" listing there somewhere?
>
> I've never found a name or number label for that steel just the
> "1.22% carbon steel" discription.
>
>
>>Might try corn oil - every one will think french fries...maybe
>>burning.
>>Martin Eastburn
>
>
> That might be worth a try. :)
>
> Becareful of the smoke tho it can catch fire.
>
> "don't stand in the smoke" -alvin
>
> I've always had a good lid for my quenching oil just because. But
> back when I used ATF I used the lid to smuther the fire a few times
> too.
>
> Alvin in AZ
The better oil that is used in Kitchens is Peanut - it is very high temp
before smoking. 600 F around that.

Gallons of oils like these can be had at Costco and other volume places.
Might be better if it were used - e.g. not known to harm people to begin with.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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Posted by Hamma Head on August 17, 2005, 10:15 pm
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when i quench in vegetable oil it almost always catches fire,..just
smokes a little.The fire seems to keep the smoke down to a minimum.I've
had people suggest quenching in transmission fluid before,..and the
smoke from that might be a bit much for where im forging at.Likely not
very good for your lungs either. The
fire isn't a problem because i use old military ammo boxes for quench
tanks,air tight and once the lids sealed it will keep ants and bugs out
of your oil.Easy to move too,once the lid's dogged down.


Posted by Charly the Bastard on August 19, 2005, 9:23 am
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Hamma Head wrote:

> when i quench in vegetable oil it almost always catches fire,..just
> smokes a little.The fire seems to keep the smoke down to a minimum.I've
> had people suggest quenching in transmission fluid before,..and the
> smoke from that might be a bit much for where im forging at.Likely not
> very good for your lungs either. The
> fire isn't a problem because i use old military ammo boxes for quench
> tanks,air tight and once the lids sealed it will keep ants and bugs out
> of your oil.Easy to move too,once the lid's dogged down.

Don't use ATF, or old crankcase drainings. Auto petro products have all
kinds of narsty stuff in them that can contaminate the steel at quench
temp, mainly lithium based soaps used for anti-foaming characteristics.
This is high temp chemistry here. Why do you think it's labeled Detergent
motor Oil? Any oil will flash a bit when you shove red hot steel into it.
It usually goes out when the piece is totally immersed, removing two of the
three legs of the fire triangle; ignition source and heat. It's the vapors
that flash, not the liquid. .

Charly



Posted by on August 19, 2005, 2:30 pm
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> Hamma Head wrote:
> > ...i use old military ammo boxes for quench tanks,

How big?

> Don't use ATF, or old crankcase drainings. Auto petro products
> have all kinds of narsty stuff in them that can contaminate the
> steel at quench temp, mainly lithium based soaps used for
> anti-foaming characteristics. This is high temp chemistry here.

Nasty stuff for you and me but somehow don't think it'll effect the
steel. But all I'm going on is that pattern welded knife makers
claim there is no effect from borax as a flux. If either is true,
then...

> Any oil will flash a bit when you shove red hot steel into it.
> It usually goes out when the piece is totally immersed, removing
> two of the three legs of the fire triangle; ignition source and
> heat. It's the vapors that flash, not the liquid. .
> Charly

Yeah what Charly said.

Also, real quenching oil has additives to modify the quench rate and
reduce smoke (a bunch) but still the trick is to be able to submerge
all the "hot part" including the tongs if they got "hot" too. I've
had my "real quenching oil" burning like it has a candle in the
middle of the pool. :) Kind of weird looking but harmless. Not
anything like what I had back when I used ATF. That ATF stuff is
a bad idea really.

Quenching big stuff? ...you need a big quench tank.

Real quenching oil has another quality I forget to mention...
longevity! It's designed to not have to be changed out as often for
industrial production work. At this time I figure the dangged stuff
will out-last me. ;)

With a preliminary grinding job down to ~1/32" thick on 1095 I've
had better luck with my real quenching oil than with ATF or water
or brine. YMMV.

Alvin in AZ

Posted by on August 16, 2005, 4:08 pm
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> thanks for the reply!I reckon it is real 5160,..used late model
> truck springs.

For sure don't count on it being anything other than a "low alloy
medium carbon steel". "5160" is a good enough name for it tho.

There's hundreds of alloys used for that and over a dozen that are
common, they experiment all the time it seems.

As far as you and me we prob'ly can't tell the difference in most
of them. :/ But 6150 has been talked about being very different
acting under the hammer becuase of the V content.

I'm a knife grinder-outer and heat treat is all and amateur high
carbon steel metallurgist.

Since I had to look it up to spell it... ;)
Websters... 2: one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or
sport as a pastime [hobby in my case :] rather than as a profession

The book I read about automotive springs made a big deal about the
inside and the outside of the spring being the same hardness so the
whole spring will work together. Otherwise it'll fail, quick.

So the alloying is mostly for "hardening ability" the ability to
harden deep enough for the job. There are lots of reasons to add
alloying but their first concern was the get 1 hrc hardness (or
less)difference through out.

Thicker springs need more Cr and/or Mo.
Thinner ones don't need so why pay for it? ;)

Mn isn't a top choice for this job since it isn't as good of a grain
refiner. Funny what a great alloying agent Cr is! :) (just so long
as it doesn't get over about 5% Cr)

> Ive been forging kinves from some of it.I had been doing a
> differential hardening in plain jane veg oil,getting a nice hamon
> too.But a big bowie i forged out and finished as a kind of "test
> bed" doesn't seem to be as hard as i'd like.Not as tough as i've
> heard "5160" is supposed to be either.Nothing tests knives as
> brutaly as giving them to a 14 year old nephew. Reckon these
> sprigs arn't true 5160?When i can fire my forge again ill try a
> scraphunk in a water quench.i dove to stick with waterif i
> could.Being in suburbia,huge smoke plumes and noxious clouds arn't
> an option.

yeah that's the way to do it! :) try it and tell -us- about it. :)

I call it "hobby talk" there can't be too much of that IMO. :)

http://www.admiralsteel.com (?)

Has some 52100 and L6 I want to get, they also have some honest to
goodness 5160 too. ;)

As far as strong knife stuff L6 is the way to go IMO.

Old circular saw blades and bandsaw blades were L6 (4370) but since
the 50's they've been 8670-modified.

Alvin in AZ
ps- "if you don't sound kooky when you talk about your hobby to
outsiders, you ain't into very far"

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