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Posted by Hamma Head on August 16, 2005, 8:45 pm
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Howdy,Alvin. Im
not sure how that mineral oil will work,..its something Charley
suggested.It sounds right thought,..something between water and oil in
viscosity.
I reckon your right about those old springs varying in alloy.Thats why i
like 1095 for knives,..hardness from carbon without Chrome
hocus-pocus.Even the "official" carbon content in 5160 doesn't look
right to my eyes.But the final measure is the result.I did have some old
leaf springs a local boy dug up from about two feet under his back
yard,.i reckon they had been there at least 40 years,which worked and
acted just like a plain high-carbon steel. One of the most
fun things about fooling around with hot steel is getting to experiment
and learn. I'm in southern Oklahoma,..right down the road from Jantz.
last week i bought a pair of c-clamps for my drill-press(nothing like a
knife whizzing around at 1700 rpm to get your attention...i was lucky it
only cut me once!).On the package for those clamps ,they claim the body
is made of"ductile/malleable iron".I wonder if this is true wrought
iron?I had thought they had stopped making that in the late 60's.If i
wasn't so cheap id just pop that sucka in the forge and see.Five bucks
is five bucks! I've e-mailed the manufacturer,..but haven't received a
reply yet.
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Posted by WhenTheWifeLetsMe on August 16, 2005, 10:24 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:45:32 -0500, Hamma_Head@webtv.net (Hamma Head)
wrote:
> Howdy,Alvin. Im
>not sure how that mineral oil will work,..its something Charley
>suggested.It sounds right thought,..something between water and oil in
>viscosity.
>I reckon your right about those old springs varying in alloy.Thats why i
>like 1095 for knives,..hardness from carbon without Chrome
>hocus-pocus.Even the "official" carbon content in 5160 doesn't look
>right to my eyes.But the final measure is the result.I did have some old
>leaf springs a local boy dug up from about two feet under his back
>yard,.i reckon they had been there at least 40 years,which worked and
>acted just like a plain high-carbon steel. One of the most
>fun things about fooling around with hot steel is getting to experiment
>and learn. I'm in southern Oklahoma,..right down the road from Jantz.
>last week i bought a pair of c-clamps for my drill-press(nothing like a
>knife whizzing around at 1700 rpm to get your attention...i was lucky it
>only cut me once!).On the package for those clamps ,they claim the body
>is made of"ductile/malleable iron".I wonder if this is true wrought
>iron?I had thought they had stopped making that in the late 60's.If i
>wasn't so cheap id just pop that sucka in the forge and see.Five bucks
>is five bucks! I've e-mailed the manufacturer,..but haven't received a
>reply yet.
Could this be what they are referring to? This info is from the Lee
Valley web pages. (articles/woodworking/about tools/ductile cast iron)
Ductile Cast Iron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The product write-ups for every member of our plane family boast that
the bodies are made of ductile cast iron.
In developing our new line of planes, we analyzed a wide range of
planes made in the last 150 years. We wanted to incorporate the
advantages of modern metallurgy with all the lessons we learned from
the planes that never made it to market. First in the line of ductile
cast iron products were our Veritas® Chisel Plane and our Veritas®
Low-Angle Block Plane. Now that our plane family has grown
substantially since the fall of 1999, we thought we should tell you a
bit more about ductile cast iron.
All cast iron alloys contain graphite. The shape in which the graphite
particles are found, ranging from flake to spherical, plays a
significant role in determining the mechanical properties of cast
irons. The most familiar type of cast iron is gray iron; as such, the
terms "cast iron" and "gray iron" are quite often used
interchangeably. The flake-like shape of the graphite present in gray
iron can concentrate stress and actually promote crack propagation.
Simply put, gray cast iron is brittle, and this inability to absorb
shock is why a bench plane cast from gray iron often cracks when it is
dropped onto the shop floor.
Back in the early 1940s, at the International Nickel Company (INCO)
Research Laboratory in Bayonne, New Jersey, the task of creating a
better cast iron was assigned to a man by the name of Keith Dwight
Millis. Having researched various possibilities, Mr. Millis approached
one of his superiors, Mr. Norman Pilling, with a list of elements that
showed promise. Upon seeing the list, Mr. Pilling’s first instincts
were to refute some items on that list. Then, it occurred to him that
sometimes we have to learn the hard way; he let Mr. Millis proceed
with the experiment — at his own risk, mind you. So despite the
warnings that this would be a very hazardous operation, Millis went
ahead and added magnesium (as a copper-magnesium alloy) to cast iron.
Millis discovered that the graphite in the resultant solidified
castings was present in a ball-like form instead of flakes, as in
ordinary gray cast iron. It turns out that this was an extraordinary
finding.
What does that mean to the woodworker? The spherical graphite
particles found in ductile cast iron, which is also known as nodular
iron, do not cause stress concentrations and actually inhibit crack
formation, creating an alloy with great strength and considerable
ductility. Furthermore, ductile cast iron is not subject to the same
creep and tension relief as gray iron, so it retains its
factory-machined accuracy. Its toughness is halfway between that of
gray iron and steel, and its shock resistance is comparable to
ordinary grades of mild carbon steel. This means your Veritas® plane
will survive a fall from the bench without breaking and without
becoming untrue because the shock relieved some inherent tension, as
will happen with gray cast iron.
T.R.S.
02/04
Live forever or die trying.
WhenTheWifeLetsMe
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Posted by on August 17, 2005, 4:14 pm
Please log in for more thread options <snipped cool post, thanks :>
> WhenTheWifeLetsMe
From John Neely's Practical Metallurgy...
[starting with number 2... ;]
2. Grey Cast Iron.
Much of the carbon is in the form of graphite. Other
microstructures are pearlite [railroad rail] and ferrite
[pure iron].
1. White Cast Iron.
Most of the carbon is in the combined form of cemetite (iron
carbide). This is a very hard, brittle material that often
contains pearlite grains. It is essentally unweldable. [high
manganese vs high silicon content of grey cast iron, is the
main difference between #1 and #2:]
3. Alloy Cast Iron.
This is cast iron to which alloys have been added to enhance
certain characteristics, for example, an addition of nickel to
retain austenite [non-magnetic iron].
4. Nodular or Ductile Cast Iron.
The carbon is mostly in the form of spheroids and is produced
during solidification by inoculating the cast iron with an element
such as magnesium while it is still in the ladle.
5. Malleable Cast Iron.
The carbon in malleable cast iron is also in the form of graphite
spheroids but is formed as a result of lengthy heat treatment of
white cast iron at high temperatures.
--------------------
There are many sub-catagories to these too... I don't really
understand it all that good. :/
Anyway, ductile/nodular cast iron and malleable cast iron are two
different animals. ;)
Bronze and brass are supposed to be certain alloys, but the sales
departments of the producers of those alloys call them whatever they
want (whatever seems to sell best?).
Same with cast iron, so just because it has it printed right on it
that it's a certain thing, don't believe it ok? :)
I'm really only into high-carbon and tool steels as they pertain to
knife blades and springs. The only reason I know anything about a
bunch of this other stuff was from studying up to answer a question.
Like this one gave me the reason to study somemore just to get that
"cast iron crap;)" more straight in my mind.
Alvin in AZ
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Posted by Hamma Head on August 17, 2005, 4:48 pm
Please log in for more thread options Thanks for the info,Alvin.In any event if one of thse clamps breaks ill
see what it does when hot.
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Posted by Charly the Bastard on August 17, 2005, 8:35 am
Please log in for more thread options Hamma Head wrote:
> Howdy,Alvin. Im
> not sure how that mineral oil will work,..its something Charley
> suggested.It sounds right thought,..something between water and oil in
> viscosity.
> I reckon your right about those old springs varying in alloy.Thats why i
> like 1095 for knives,..hardness from carbon without Chrome
> hocus-pocus.Even the "official" carbon content in 5160 doesn't look
> right to my eyes.But the final measure is the result.I did have some old
> leaf springs a local boy dug up from about two feet under his back
> yard,.i reckon they had been there at least 40 years,which worked and
> acted just like a plain high-carbon steel. One of the most
> fun things about fooling around with hot steel is getting to experiment
> and learn. I'm in southern Oklahoma,..right down the road from Jantz.
> last week i bought a pair of c-clamps for my drill-press(nothing like a
> knife whizzing around at 1700 rpm to get your attention...i was lucky it
> only cut me once!).On the package for those clamps ,they claim the body
> is made of"ductile/malleable iron".I wonder if this is true wrought
> iron?I had thought they had stopped making that in the late 60's.If i
> wasn't so cheap id just pop that sucka in the forge and see.Five bucks
> is five bucks! I've e-mailed the manufacturer,..but haven't received a
> reply yet.
Damn son, you're right down the road from me; I'm in OKC. Email me direct,
we'll get together.
Charly
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