All stainless pattern weld? Can a pattern exist?

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All stainless pattern weld? Can a pattern exist? John FLy 09-21-2005
Posted by John FLy on September 21, 2005, 9:38 am
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Are there any combinations of stainless that can be (forge)welded
together that could be etched to bring out a pattern?

If so what types of SS would I be needing?

ALSO: oxide question


How fast does the natural oxide layer build up on stainless?

I've done some SS to carbon steel forge welding... I've even done it
with an oxy/acetelyne torch and a couple of firebricks(nothing big this
way)...

I normally grind then sand my steels to a good clean surface...
sometimes near mirror. I always leave my SS until last.. I don't know
if it helps but i figure the less time it has to form an oxide layer
the better.

I worry that if I spend time prepareing many pieces of SS that an oxide
layer might build up on the first pieces, almost undoing some of my
prep..

Should I worry? What can I do if it might be a problem?


Posted by Charly the Bastard on September 22, 2005, 4:34 pm
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John FLy wrote:

> Are there any combinations of stainless that can be (forge)welded
> together that could be etched to bring out a pattern?
>

You betcha.

> If so what types of SS would I be needing?
>

You'll need a 400 series and a 200 or 300 series. The 400 hardens up, the
200 and 300 don't. Think twice as many 400 series layers as the others.
After you heat treat and etch, the echant will attack the 400 series for
its carbon. You can get quite a deep etch with hydrochloric. 304 will
polish up mirror bright and is very 'white' because of the high nickel
content, and it's one of the toughest, most fiberous alloys I've ever had
the misfortune to work with. This stuff is like wrought iron when it comes
to absorbing a bending force, it eats fiber grinder disks for breakfast. It
makes an excellent 'soft' part. It also resists blueing if you wnat to blue
or parkerize the hard part to highlight the pattern.

>
> ALSO: oxide question
>
> How fast does the natural oxide layer build up on stainless?
>

Not that fast, months.

>
> I've done some SS to carbon steel forge welding... I've even done it
> with an oxy/acetelyne torch and a couple of firebricks(nothing big this
> way)...
>
> I normally grind then sand my steels to a good clean surface...
> sometimes near mirror. I always leave my SS until last.. I don't know
> if it helps but i figure the less time it has to form an oxide layer
> the better.
>
> I worry that if I spend time prepareing many pieces of SS that an oxide
> layer might build up on the first pieces, almost undoing some of my
> prep..
>
> Should I worry? What can I do if it might be a problem?

There's no such thing as too much flux. Prep? Oh, you mean burning all the
oilfield crud off the metal... that's what the flux is for. Flux
encapsulates the metal, which keeps the oxygen off it in the fire, it
chemically cleans the metal, and carries the foreign material away when you
hit it with the hammer.





Posted by John Fly on September 22, 2005, 5:02 pm
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Thats great to hear.

I'm going to look at getting some 400 and 300 or 200 series and seeing
what I come up with.


Its good to hear the oxide layer doesn't build up on SS.. I guess I
was putting some of the things I've heard about alum. (that the oxide
layer can form in seconds/min)) thus giving its "non-rusting"
appearance.


I'll still try and get them as clean / flat as possible.. My forging
skills are not that great. But I think I make up for it in prep time.


Thanks again for the help!


Posted by Charly the Bastard on September 23, 2005, 7:20 am
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John Fly wrote:

> Thats great to hear.
>
> I'm going to look at getting some 400 and 300 or 200 series and seeing
> what I come up with.
>
> Its good to hear the oxide layer doesn't build up on SS.. I guess I
> was putting some of the things I've heard about alum. (that the oxide
> layer can form in seconds/min)) thus giving its "non-rusting"
> appearance.
>
> I'll still try and get them as clean / flat as possible.. My forging
> skills are not that great. But I think I make up for it in prep time.
>
> Thanks again for the help!

Working stainless is no more effort than working mild steel, just use
bigger hammers. FYI, 200 and 300 series SS are non-magnetic, 400 series
is. Take an icebox magnet with you to the scrapyard. Happy whacking...

Charly



Posted by on September 23, 2005, 7:23 pm
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Hmmm... I'd like to know, but at this point my understanding is the
oxide layer is quicker to form on Cr than on Al and Al is like
instantanious. ;)

The chemistry teacher made a big deal about how you'll porb'ly never
seen Al or Cr without looking at it through an oxide layer.

Oil protects sodium and potassium and lithium from getting oxidized
so I figure it'd work pretty dangged good for Al and Cr too.

Also don't know this either but here goes nothing... the flix isn't
simply a coating but is actually a reactant and sometimes even a
remover of the oxide layer when the right flux gets to the right
heat and the layer isn't too thick.

So if you ain't having any trouble with the oxide layer on stainless
steel doesn't mean the oxide layer ain't there.

Now if it continues to get thicker with time and then you find
trouble with a particular flux isn't working after the metal's been
sittin around, could be that the layer is too thick for the "flux
situation" not necesarily that it didn't exist.

What do you think?

Should I just shut up and sit back down? ;)

Alvin in AZ

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