Annealling or normalizing in ashes vs vermiculite

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Annealling or normalizing in ashes vs vermiculite spaco 01-25-2010
Posted by spaco on January 25, 2010, 9:36 pm
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Some years ago I published in The Metalsmith, a test I ran cooling a
chunk of steel in my ash bucket. Last week I ran a very similar test
using vermiculite instead of the ashes from my coal forge. I was
shocked to see that the part cooled much faster in the vermiculite
(about 600°F in the first hour)than it had in the ashes (about 300°F in
the first hour).
Does anybody here have data that would support or refute this finding?
I did find one blacksmith related site where the guy said about the same
thing, but his experience was apparently anecdotal.

For what it's worth, either annealing medium will work pretty well for
plain carbon steels, and maybe for 4140. But it won't do much for even
01 let alone S7 or other air hardening steels.

I already have the "ashes" test data and graph on blacksmith portion of
my website and I will make a page for the vermiculite results if some of
you are interested.

Pete Stanaitis

Posted by on January 26, 2010, 7:18 am
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Pete,

Interesting findings. I thought vermiculite was a better insulator so
you would have seen the opposite results. Have you done anything to
the ashes, like sifting out small pieces of coke or clinker, or are
they whatever got shoveled out of the forge?

Also, on a related note, did you happen to notice any carburizing in
the pieces that you tested?

Thanks,
Paul

Posted by Martin H. Eastburn on January 26, 2010, 7:01 pm
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Let's look at the materials.

1. vermiculite is mica. Mostly Muscovite or the old name Muscovy from th=
e Ural=20
mountains in Russia. It is classified into Phyllosilicates in mineralogy=
=2E

2. dry ashes - or mud if water within. Dry is really water driven off an=
d dry.

Therefore when vermiculite is used it is a large array of sheets of miner=
al and
hold lots and lots of moisture. It is hygroscopic as I recall.

The ashes are void of air and moisture keeping scale down and blanket of =
pre
burnt material. It withstands most any temperature until it converts a r=
efined
state of minerals.

Likely had steam cooling in the vermiculite.

I've heard of both, and this test you did was good input.

Martin

spaco wrote:
> Some years ago I published in The Metalsmith, a test I ran cooling a=20
> chunk of steel in my ash bucket. Last week I ran a very similar test=20
> using vermiculite instead of the ashes from my coal forge. I was=20
> shocked to see that the part cooled much faster in the vermiculite=20
> (about 600=B0F in the first hour)than it had in the ashes (about 300=B0=
F in=20
> the first hour).
> Does anybody here have data that would support or refute this finding=
?
> I did find one blacksmith related site where the guy said about the sam=
e=20
> thing, but his experience was apparently anecdotal.
>=20
> For what it's worth, either annealing medium will work pretty well for =

> plain carbon steels, and maybe for 4140. But it won't do much for even=
=20
> 01 let alone S7 or other air hardening steels.
>=20
> I already have the "ashes" test data and graph on blacksmith portion of=
=20
> my website and I will make a page for the vermiculite results if some o=
f=20
> you are interested.
>=20
> Pete Stanaitis


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