Should I do a full anneal to dead soft before forge welding?

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Should I do a full anneal to dead soft before forge welding? John Fly 10-12-2006
Posted by John Fly on October 12, 2006, 4:36 pm
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I recently obtained some old rasps and tried to forge weld one to an
old leaf spring.

I didn't fully anneal the rasp and after ~20 blows I had a major break
happen.


Besides cracking/breaking of metal thats too hard during forging, would
having the metal at dead soft actually -help- get a good forge weld?

I know its not nessassary but.... anything to help get a cleaner and
quicker weld is always a good thing.


Posted by on October 12, 2006, 5:28 pm
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John,

When you heat the steel to welding temperature it will be dead soft.
The important thing to remember is that high carbon (tool steel) is
very fussy when it comes to welding. It burns at a lower temperature.
You will need to be very careful when you get to the critical temps for
welding. I would suggest that you make sure that your fire is very
clean and that you flux thoroughly. Also, make sure to wire brush the 2
pieces VERY CLEAN prior to fluxing.

Good Luck,
Paul

> I recently obtained some old rasps and tried to forge weld one to an
> old leaf spring.
>
> I didn't fully anneal the rasp and after ~20 blows I had a major break
> happen.
>
> Besides cracking/breaking of metal thats too hard during forging, would
> having the metal at dead soft actually -help- get a good forge weld?
>
> I know its not nessassary but.... anything to help get a cleaner and
> quicker weld is always a good thing.


Posted by Chilla on October 12, 2006, 7:29 pm
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Hi John,

Sounds like the rasp is getting too hot.

When the metal cracks does the metal look granular or is it a shear?

If it's granular then it's too hot, if it's a shear then you're working
the metal cold.

You're very adventurous, welding high carbon with high carbon, I tip my
hat to you for "balls".



Regards Charles
P.S. Paul's advise is very good btw





John Fly wrote:

> I recently obtained some old rasps and tried to forge weld one to an
> old leaf spring.
>
> I didn't fully anneal the rasp and after ~20 blows I had a major break
> happen.
>
>
> Besides cracking/breaking of metal thats too hard during forging, would
> having the metal at dead soft actually -help- get a good forge weld?
>
> I know its not nessassary but.... anything to help get a cleaner and
> quicker weld is always a good thing.
>


Posted by John Fly on October 12, 2006, 10:18 pm
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I'll have to check that out, but I believe it was shear. I might have
let the piece get too cold on my first heat.. so that could have
started a crack, I know that it piece was good the second heat(when it
opened up) because my first 3-4 hammer blows felt very good and the
metal moved quite nice. Its just when I hit a paticular spot it just
kind of "opened up on me".. oh well..

As for keeping the metal clean.. I think that was my last real visit to
a coal forge.. i'm planning on working up a propane forge so no more
time lost tending the coals and pulling out metal covered in
crud(TM)...


I suspected that at working temp the metal was dead soft but I'm no
metallurgist and turn to the community to make sure I'm not missing
anything.

---
On a personal note: Thank you for the information I have really
enjoyed the information I find here. I'm glad there are still people
in this world willing to share information with out charging for it :)


Chilla wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Sounds like the rasp is getting too hot.
>
> When the metal cracks does the metal look granular or is it a shear?
>
> If it's granular then it's too hot, if it's a shear then you're working
> the metal cold.
>
> You're very adventurous, welding high carbon with high carbon, I tip my
> hat to you for "balls".
>
>
>
> Regards Charles
> P.S. Paul's advise is very good btw
>
>
>
>
>
> John Fly wrote:
>
> > I recently obtained some old rasps and tried to forge weld one to an
> > old leaf spring.
> >
> > I didn't fully anneal the rasp and after ~20 blows I had a major break
> > happen.
> >
> >
> > Besides cracking/breaking of metal thats too hard during forging, would
> > having the metal at dead soft actually -help- get a good forge weld?
> >
> > I know its not nessassary but.... anything to help get a cleaner and
> > quicker weld is always a good thing.
> >


Posted by on October 12, 2006, 11:12 pm
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> ---
> On a personal note: Thank you for the information I have really
> enjoyed the information I find here. I'm glad there are still
> people in this world willing to share information with out
> charging for it :)

Heck for most guys this is hobby-talk and hobbyist would almost pay
someone to listen to our crazy hobby-talk. ;)

My girlfriend gives me special rates depending on whether its about
guns or knives or dogs or old pickups. Anybody else got that good
of a deal? :)

Alvin in AZ

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