Tempering quench recipe
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Tempering quench recipe theChas. 09-12-2007
Posted by Chilla on September 12, 2007, 6:43 am
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theChas. wrote:
> Caught a 'trailer' on a RFD channel horse show. It showed a blacksmith,
> (Dave Kramer) making a 'bow pin' out of 1/4" round stock. A bow pin is used
> to hold the bow on an oxen yoke up in place. More or less a heavy clip like
> sometimes used to hold pins in cheap clevis'.
> The quench gave the mild steel pin springyness so it kepts its shape.
> . . . Recipe. . .(soap solution quench)
> 5 gal water
> 5 lbs salt
> 32 oz Dawn Dishwashing Liquid (blue)
> 8 oz Shaklee Basic 'I' wettting agent.
> . . . . .Quench at 1550 F, (light red)
> . . . . .Expect a Rockweld 43 to 45C, on 1018 mild steel.

This is really odd they have two wetting agents in that recipe.

You can add a wetting agent to concrete, an old concreters trick is to
use detergent as the wetting agent.

I wonder if this recipe would work without the Shaklee Basic, and use
40 oz of detergent?


Regards Charles


Posted by Rusty_iron on September 12, 2007, 7:54 am
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Gday Charles,
I made this one up. The Shaklee Basic, is a rinse aid for the
dishwasher (not you or the wife...;-)
I just got the homebrand rinse aid instead. It seems to work great.

I remember seeing an explaination of what each does, but can't
remember where I saw it. sorry. If I find it I'll post it for you.

I use detergent on the farm as wetting agent when spraying.

Regards
Rusty_iron
Brisbane, Oz.


Posted by spaco on September 14, 2007, 2:36 pm
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All those chemicals are in there to speed the quench process, ie: cool
the metal faster. Water is about the fastest thing there is in the
quneching world, but when it forms steam at the interface between itself
and the part, the cooling rate is negatively affected. So, the
addition of chemicals which inhibit the steaming can help.

Google "ttt curve" (time/temperature/transformation curve) to see
graphs of how different steels react to differing cooling rates. The
point is that for plain carbon tool steels, the faster you quench (from
the transformation temp down below 800 or so degrees F), the harder it
gets, up to its max hardness.
If you want more, google as follows: +"super quench" +"rob gunter"
You'll get about 2 dozen hits. Look at several of them to get both
sides of the issue.
In case you miss it, super quenching won't do you much good for
things that are going to get hot, like power hammer dies, chisels for
hot work, etc..

In general, oil is a slower quench than water. Plain carbon steels
need the water quench to get fully hard except for VERY small sections.
But sometimes you will see plain carbon steels oil quenched to
minimize distortion and cracking. This, however, limits the final
hardness of the part.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------


theChas. wrote:
> Caught a 'trailer' on a RFD channel horse show. It showed a blacksmith,
> (Dave Kramer) making a 'bow pin' out of 1/4" round stock. A bow pin is used
> to hold the bow on an oxen yoke up in place. More or less a heavy clip like
> sometimes used to hold pins in cheap clevis'.
> The quench gave the mild steel pin springyness so it kepts its shape.
> . . . Recipe. . .(soap solution quench)
> 5 gal water
> 5 lbs salt
> 32 oz Dawn Dishwashing Liquid (blue)
> 8 oz Shaklee Basic 'I' wettting agent.
> . . . . .Quench at 1550 F, (light red)
> . . . . .Expect a Rockweld 43 to 45C, on 1018 mild steel.
>
>
>

Posted by Chilla on September 14, 2007, 9:18 pm
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So what's to stop you quenching in pure detergent? I mean the super
quench looks like a lot of detergent, some salt and water.

Thinking along the lines of rapid quenching, why don't we subzero quench
these steels?


Regards Charles

spaco wrote:
> All those chemicals are in there to speed the quench process, ie: cool
> the metal faster. Water is about the fastest thing there is in the
> quneching world, but when it forms steam at the interface between itself
> and the part, the cooling rate is negatively affected. So, the
> addition of chemicals which inhibit the steaming can help.
>
> Google "ttt curve" (time/temperature/transformation curve) to see
> graphs of how different steels react to differing cooling rates. The
> point is that for plain carbon tool steels, the faster you quench (from
> the transformation temp down below 800 or so degrees F), the harder it
> gets, up to its max hardness.
> If you want more, google as follows: +"super quench" +"rob gunter"
> You'll get about 2 dozen hits. Look at several of them to get both
> sides of the issue.
> In case you miss it, super quenching won't do you much good for
> things that are going to get hot, like power hammer dies, chisels for
> hot work, etc..
>
> In general, oil is a slower quench than water. Plain carbon steels
> need the water quench to get fully hard except for VERY small sections.
> But sometimes you will see plain carbon steels oil quenched to minimize
> distortion and cracking. This, however, limits the final hardness of
> the part.
>
> Pete Stanaitis


Posted by Martin H. Eastburn on September 14, 2007, 11:35 pm
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The salt makes the water able to hold a lot more heat and thus
have a higher temperature before boiling off.

If you cook pasta, one fills a pot and add some salt. The salt
makes the water 230 or so degrees F at boiling and not 210. More salt
and the temp rises. See what the temp for molten salt is - that is the max.

The soap is a water wetter and makes it conform to smaller places on the
object to cool.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Chilla wrote:
> So what's to stop you quenching in pure detergent? I mean the super
> quench looks like a lot of detergent, some salt and water.
>
> Thinking along the lines of rapid quenching, why don't we subzero quench
> these steels?
>
>
> Regards Charles
>
> spaco wrote:
>> All those chemicals are in there to speed the quench process, ie: cool
>> the metal faster. Water is about the fastest thing there is in the
>> quneching world, but when it forms steam at the interface between
>> itself and the part, the cooling rate is negatively affected. So,
>> the addition of chemicals which inhibit the steaming can help.
>>
>> Google "ttt curve" (time/temperature/transformation curve) to see
>> graphs of how different steels react to differing cooling rates. The
>> point is that for plain carbon tool steels, the faster you quench
>> (from the transformation temp down below 800 or so degrees F), the
>> harder it gets, up to its max hardness.
>> If you want more, google as follows: +"super quench" +"rob
>> gunter" You'll get about 2 dozen hits. Look at several of them to
>> get both sides of the issue.
>> In case you miss it, super quenching won't do you much good for
>> things that are going to get hot, like power hammer dies, chisels for
>> hot work, etc..
>>
>> In general, oil is a slower quench than water. Plain carbon steels
>> need the water quench to get fully hard except for VERY small
>> sections. But sometimes you will see plain carbon steels oil quenched
>> to minimize distortion and cracking. This, however, limits the final
>> hardness of the part.
>>
>> Pete Stanaitis
>

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