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This is getting frustrating... Prometheus 02-06-2007
Posted by Prometheus on February 6, 2007, 2:34 am
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Hello all,

I've been looking around for metal that is suitable for chisel and
knifemaking- doesn't seem like it would be such a tall order, but it
would seem that either I have a lack of education on the subject (and
that's probably it in a nutshell) or no one makes anything useful
(unlikely, of course.)

Basically, I just want something that will take a keen edge, can be
heat treated and tempered in a gas forge without special equipment,
and is relatively easy for a newbie to work.

I tried finding 1095, but it seems the stuff is all but unheard of in
anything thicker than 1/16"- and it comes in sheets rather than bar
stock.

So obviously, I need to be looking for something different. From what
I've heard, I'm not that interested in trying to forge stainless 440,
and heat treating tool steel is probably beyond me at this point. So,
are there any good suggestions here?

I can order through work at cost, and without a shipping charge-but
the material will tend to come in 12' minimum bar lengths, so I'd like
to make sure I'm not buying a whole lot of something I'm personally
unable to do much with. A place like McMaster Carr might be okay,
with shorter lengths availible, but at a glance, it seems quite a bit
more costly.

EMJ is probably the most likely supplier, as I know we have an account
with them. Here are a few that seem to me like they may be decent
materials to try out- if anyone can give a yea or nay to these, that'd
be greatly appreciated. I am not that concerned about making edged
tools that would make an average samuri sword maker jealous- just
working tools that I can make myself and that will hold a keen edge
for a reasonable amount of time. Basic high-carbon steel is a
reasonable touchstone for me- I have several carbon steel chisels that
I'm very happy with, and if I can make things with that level of
performance or better, that's good enough.

So here's the list of what I know I can get, in sizes that sound about
right to me:

1045
1144 (stressproof- any problem forging this with the added sulfur?)
4140
4150
5160
Any of the assorted tool steels, but I'd like to practice with some
easier metals first.

And yes, of course I can keep practicing with A36- but I'd like to
make some functional tools as well as learning the more decorative
aspects of blacksmithing.


Posted by Chilla on February 6, 2007, 2:51 am
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5160 - common every day spring steel.

It's relatively cheap, will make a dandy knife and a dandy chisel (maybe
even a knife on the end of a chisel... but that's plain silly) and above
all it's p*ss easy to use.

As to the steel with the high sulphur content steer clear, sulphur stops
forge welding happening (unless you burn it off and burn the steel in
the process)

Imo


Regards Charles



Prometheus wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've been looking around for metal that is suitable for chisel and
> knifemaking- doesn't seem like it would be such a tall order, but it
> would seem that either I have a lack of education on the subject (and
> that's probably it in a nutshell) or no one makes anything useful
> (unlikely, of course.)
>
> Basically, I just want something that will take a keen edge, can be
> heat treated and tempered in a gas forge without special equipment,
> and is relatively easy for a newbie to work.
>
> So here's the list of what I know I can get, in sizes that sound about
> right to me:
>
> 1045
> 1144 (stressproof- any problem forging this with the added sulfur?)
> 4140
> 4150
> 5160
> Any of the assorted tool steels, but I'd like to practice with some
> easier metals first.
>
> And yes, of course I can keep practicing with A36- but I'd like to
> make some functional tools as well as learning the more decorative
> aspects of blacksmithing.


Posted by Prometheus on February 6, 2007, 4:05 am
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On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:51:01 +1100, Chilla

>5160 - common every day spring steel.
>
>It's relatively cheap, will make a dandy knife and a dandy chisel (maybe
>even a knife on the end of a chisel... but that's plain silly) and above
>all it's p*ss easy to use.

Sounds good to me- thanks Charles! I'll put in the order for a bar of
that and give it a go.

>As to the steel with the high sulphur content steer clear, sulphur stops
>forge welding happening (unless you burn it off and burn the steel in
>the process)
>
>Imo


Posted by Charly the Bastard on February 6, 2007, 7:31 am
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Prometheus wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:51:01 +1100, Chilla
>
> >5160 - common every day spring steel.
> >
> >It's relatively cheap, will make a dandy knife and a dandy chisel (maybe
> >even a knife on the end of a chisel... but that's plain silly) and above
> >all it's p*ss easy to use.
>
> Sounds good to me- thanks Charles! I'll put in the order for a bar of
> that and give it a go.
>
> >As to the steel with the high sulphur content steer clear, sulphur stops
> >forge welding happening (unless you burn it off and burn the steel in
> >the process)
> >
> >Imo

Second the 5160. Forge at medium orange (2200 F), reheat at cherry red (1600
F), quench in oil from 1600, draw at 350 to 400 for two hours. Final Rockwell
in the mid 50s, C scale. Will take a mirror polish and hold a razor edge. At
the mid 50s, the shear yeild is in the 35 to 40 tons per square inch range
(cross section), so it's damn near unbreakable by muscle power alone.

Charly




Posted by John Husvar on February 7, 2007, 9:37 am
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> Second the 5160. Forge at medium orange (2200 F), reheat at cherry red (1600
> F), quench in oil from 1600, draw at 350 to 400 for two hours. Final Rockwell
> in the mid 50s, C scale. Will take a mirror polish and hold a razor edge. At
> the mid 50s, the shear yeild is in the 35 to 40 tons per square inch range
> (cross section), so it's damn near unbreakable by muscle power alone.
>
> Charly

Ayup. Dat's de trut'.

Might try a piece or two of 9260 too. Instead of chrome-vanadium, it's
chrome-silicon. A friend has made some beautiful knives of it. Comes as
round or trapezoidal stock. Forges easily and is almost as forgiving as
5160 in heat treatment.

He gets that and 5160 from a spring shop in Akron, OH area, but any
automotive spring shop should have a lot of drops, cutoffs, etc.


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