Treadle hammers
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Subject Author Date
Treadle hammers Geoff 05-05-2007
Posted by Geoff on May 5, 2007, 9:43 am
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Hello All

I am planning on building a treadle hammer. I have go the clay Spencer
plans and have had a good look at them as a starting point. I have built
a small power hammer. http://myweb.absa.co.za/gjnelson/PowerHammer.html

I got a 150mm diameter round bar 1 meter long at a scrap yard this
morning. I also have a 90 by 100 mm piece for the hammer.

I have been browsing the archives. On and off for the last two weeks for
comments and ideas. I am interested in finding out more about the
grasshopper design. I cannot find anything on the net and was wondering
if any one on the list has built one and knows where I can get a look at
the plans. I can work it out for myself but would like some idea on how
successful the design was.

Then I would also like some recommendation how high the anvil should be.
I have some 50mm thick plate that I can add to the round bar cut in half
and add a piece from the hammer material. SO the total height will be
725mm plus what whatever I use to hold tooling. Will this be way too
low. I guess I could just raise the whole hammer up by adding wood
underneath, that will also insulate it a little from.

I would also like the group to comment on the ratio from experience of
those who have built power and treadle hammers. The mass of the anvil is
going to be about 250kg. I know from stuff I have gleaned from the net
that people recommend a 10:1 ratio but people have worked successfully
with a 3:1 ratio. My power hammer has a ratio of about 6:1 and works
well. I am not really that keen to stretch the limits to get heaviest
hammer possible but would like something that works really well.

I would consider a air hammer as that may fit the bill better than a
treadle hammer but I would then have to outlay a lot more money on a
compressor to run it and that I don't have the cash at the moment to
outlay for a large enough compressor.

Thank you for comments and advice.

Geoff

Posted by spaco on May 5, 2007, 10:46 am
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The original Gade-Marx treadle hammer (see www.spaco.org/trdlhamr.html)
anvils are about 37 1/2" high (you get to do the math) and most of the
others are about that height, too. The Otto Schmirler design was also
about that height. Anvil heights for power hammers don't apply here,
because you have to be close to the treadle hammer to apply the power
with your foot, not to just regualate speed. I'd use your round bar at
full height and add the 50mm plate to that, but---
consider putting a hardy hole in the top of that plate somehow for
lower tooling. Some people would space your 50mm plate a couple of
inches above your round bar so the hardy tools could poke through. This
would also leave an opening for punch-outs to fall through.
To cover that hardy hole for normal use, make another 50mm plate with
a hardy stem.
These hammer heads weigh about 67 pounds.
A treadle hammer is not a replacement for a power hammer. The average
human being has about 100 to 300 watts to put into work on a continuous
basis and that compares to about 1/3 hp, at best.

Try this link: http://www.grasshopperhammer.com/
I typed "+hammer +grasshopper" into google and got 233,000 hits, so you
should be able to find all you want there.
I appreciate Bruce Freeman's knowledge and skill, but there are about
as many parts in the grasshopper hammer as there are in my car!

I don't know which set of Clay Spencer plans you have, but they should
give you all the info you are asking about. If you don't have his
in-line hammer plans, maybe you should get them.

If you really want a power hammer, check out Clay Spencer's Tire Hammer
Take this link to a really good picture of one:
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=5302
You could even come to the USA for an October vacation at the John C
Campbell Folk School for a workshop on this hammer.

Google (use the quotes) +"clay spencer" +"tire hammer"
to get about 77 hits on the subject.


Last comment---- the "ratio": We have built bunches of treadle
hammers 3 different times and they all have hollow anvil bases, 4" X 6"
X 3/8" wall (Gade-Marx). That makes them pretty light and easily
transportable. They work just fine.


Hope this helps,
Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Geoff wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I am planning on building a treadle hammer. I have go the clay Spencer
> plans and have had a good look at them as a starting point. I have built
> a small power hammer. http://myweb.absa.co.za/gjnelson/PowerHammer.html
>
> I got a 150mm diameter round bar 1 meter long at a scrap yard this
> morning. I also have a 90 by 100 mm piece for the hammer.
>
> I have been browsing the archives. On and off for the last two weeks for
> comments and ideas. I am interested in finding out more about the
> grasshopper design. I cannot find anything on the net and was wondering
> if any one on the list has built one and knows where I can get a look at
> the plans. I can work it out for myself but would like some idea on how
> successful the design was.
>
> Then I would also like some recommendation how high the anvil should be.
> I have some 50mm thick plate that I can add to the round bar cut in half
> and add a piece from the hammer material. SO the total height will be
> 725mm plus what whatever I use to hold tooling. Will this be way too
> low. I guess I could just raise the whole hammer up by adding wood
> underneath, that will also insulate it a little from.
>
> I would also like the group to comment on the ratio from experience of
> those who have built power and treadle hammers. The mass of the anvil is
> going to be about 250kg. I know from stuff I have gleaned from the net
> that people recommend a 10:1 ratio but people have worked successfully
> with a 3:1 ratio. My power hammer has a ratio of about 6:1 and works
> well. I am not really that keen to stretch the limits to get heaviest
> hammer possible but would like something that works really well.
>
> I would consider a air hammer as that may fit the bill better than a
> treadle hammer but I would then have to outlay a lot more money on a
> compressor to run it and that I don't have the cash at the moment to
> outlay for a large enough compressor.
>
> Thank you for comments and advice.
>
> Geoff

Posted by on June 26, 2007, 3:30 pm
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Geoff,

I appreciate Pete's referring you to my website, but if his car has
only as many parts as the Grasshopper, then he must be riding a
bicycle!

You are welcome to attempt to duplicate the Grasshopper without buying
the plans. The design is not patented. But I would appreciate it if
you not CALL the result a Grasshopper, because I can assure you it
will not BE one.

The reason you will not be able to duplicate the Grasshopper is the
same reason that the Grasshopper gets bad PR, like Pete's, below.
There's a level of complexity that defies easy description. It is
because of that that I have published plans consisting of over 100
drawings, fully dimensional, and several pages of instructions.

Unfortunately, I have yet to be able to repost the complete website I
once had, that showed existing Grasshopper hammers. However, one of
these machines was built by one inexperienced worker, with guidance by
an experienced one, in 40 hours, I'm told.

For the advantages of the Grasshopper over other designs, please
review the features list on my website. http://www.grasshopperhammer.com/
If you have any questions, you may use the email link from that page.

All the best,

Bruce Freeman

Geoff View profile
Hello All I am planning on building a treadle hammer. <snip> I am
interested in finding out more about the grasshopper design. I cannot
find anything on the net and was wondering if any one on the list has
built one and knows where I can get a look at the plans. I can work it
out for myself but would like some idea on how successful the design
was. <snip>


<snip>
Try this link: http://www.grasshopperhammer.com/
I typed "+hammer +grasshopper" into google and got 233,000 hits, so
you
should be able to find all you want there.
I appreciate Bruce Freeman's knowledge and skill, but there are
about
as many parts in the grasshopper hammer as there are in my car!

<snip>
Pete Stanaitis




Posted by spaco on May 5, 2007, 10:53 am
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Another last comment:

I wouldn't make the anvil shorter than about 1 meter and put wood
underneath as you suggest. That would get the treadle up off the floor
and you won't like that. Your knee would be bent too much for comfort.
I stand up when hitting hard and sit down when chiselling and doing
decorative work.


Pete Stanaitis
-------------------


Geoff wrote:

> Hello All
>
> I am planning on building a treadle hammer. I have go the clay Spencer
> plans and have had a good look at them as a starting point. I have built
> a small power hammer. http://myweb.absa.co.za/gjnelson/PowerHammer.html
>
> I got a 150mm diameter round bar 1 meter long at a scrap yard this
> morning. I also have a 90 by 100 mm piece for the hammer.
>
> I have been browsing the archives. On and off for the last two weeks for
> comments and ideas. I am interested in finding out more about the
> grasshopper design. I cannot find anything on the net and was wondering
> if any one on the list has built one and knows where I can get a look at
> the plans. I can work it out for myself but would like some idea on how
> successful the design was.
>
> Then I would also like some recommendation how high the anvil should be.
> I have some 50mm thick plate that I can add to the round bar cut in half
> and add a piece from the hammer material. SO the total height will be
> 725mm plus what whatever I use to hold tooling. Will this be way too
> low. I guess I could just raise the whole hammer up by adding wood
> underneath, that will also insulate it a little from.
>
> I would also like the group to comment on the ratio from experience of
> those who have built power and treadle hammers. The mass of the anvil is
> going to be about 250kg. I know from stuff I have gleaned from the net
> that people recommend a 10:1 ratio but people have worked successfully
> with a 3:1 ratio. My power hammer has a ratio of about 6:1 and works
> well. I am not really that keen to stretch the limits to get heaviest
> hammer possible but would like something that works really well.
>
> I would consider a air hammer as that may fit the bill better than a
> treadle hammer but I would then have to outlay a lot more money on a
> compressor to run it and that I don't have the cash at the moment to
> outlay for a large enough compressor.
>
> Thank you for comments and advice.
>
> Geoff

Posted by Geoff on May 5, 2007, 1:36 pm
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Thank you very much for the comments Pete. The goggle search does not
give many hits that include treadle hammers but I found some sites I had
not seen in my previous searches.

Thank you for the advice on the height of the anvil. If someone has
built the grasshopper I would love to hear from you so that I can get a
good idea on the operation.

I actually have the plans for the original Gade Marx design not the Clay
Spensor design. I thought they were from Clay Spensor as that is what I
saw most on the web. I was thinking of building the grasshopper as it
looked easier to build than Clay Spenor's in line design.

I will not build the full complexity model but one more similar and
simpler than the one that Raymond Maiara built as described here
http://www.auroraforge.com/blacksmithing/grasshoppers.html

Once again Pete thank you very much.

spaco wrote:
> Another last comment:
>
> I wouldn't make the anvil shorter than about 1 meter and put wood
> underneath as you suggest. That would get the treadle up off the floor
> and you won't like that. Your knee would be bent too much for comfort.
> I stand up when hitting hard and sit down when chiselling and doing
> decorative work.
>
>
> Pete Stanaitis
> -------------------
>
>
> Geoff wrote:
>
>> Hello All
>>
>> I am planning on building a treadle hammer. I have go the clay Spencer
>> plans and have had a good look at them as a starting point. I have
>> built a small power hammer.
>> http://myweb.absa.co.za/gjnelson/PowerHammer.html
>>
>> I got a 150mm diameter round bar 1 meter long at a scrap yard this
>> morning. I also have a 90 by 100 mm piece for the hammer.
>>
>> I have been browsing the archives. On and off for the last two weeks
>> for comments and ideas. I am interested in finding out more about the
>> grasshopper design. I cannot find anything on the net and was
>> wondering if any one on the list has built one and knows where I can
>> get a look at the plans. I can work it out for myself but would like
>> some idea on how successful the design was.
>>
>> Then I would also like some recommendation how high the anvil should
>> be. I have some 50mm thick plate that I can add to the round bar cut
>> in half and add a piece from the hammer material. SO the total height
>> will be 725mm plus what whatever I use to hold tooling. Will this be
>> way too low. I guess I could just raise the whole hammer up by adding
>> wood underneath, that will also insulate it a little from.
>>
>> I would also like the group to comment on the ratio from experience of
>> those who have built power and treadle hammers. The mass of the anvil
>> is going to be about 250kg. I know from stuff I have gleaned from the
>> net that people recommend a 10:1 ratio but people have worked
>> successfully with a 3:1 ratio. My power hammer has a ratio of about
>> 6:1 and works well. I am not really that keen to stretch the limits to
>> get heaviest hammer possible but would like something that works
>> really well.
>>
>> I would consider a air hammer as that may fit the bill better than a
>> treadle hammer but I would then have to outlay a lot more money on a
>> compressor to run it and that I don't have the cash at the moment to
>> outlay for a large enough compressor.
>>
>> Thank you for comments and advice.
>>
>> Geoff

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