Upsetting 1/4 in dia. rod

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Upsetting 1/4 in dia. rod theChas. 04-06-2008
Posted by theChas. on April 6, 2008, 11:39 am
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The only method I can think of is to get a 30" tall piece of 2" pipe and
fill it with water, so when I heat a piece of 1/4" dia rod (28 inches long)
to upset, I can hold it by the hot end and quench all but the last 3/8
inches, inside the pipe.
My propane forge works well, but I cannot control it like a coal forge. The
propane forge heats at least 4 inches of the rod. Then it just bends when I
try to upset it, (to make rivets).
I guess I could just whammie the rod end just once with the wedge side of my
cross peen hammer, about 3/8 inches from the end. Then that should jam in
the plate with the tapered hole. This may be the solution.
My instructor showed me how to do this (upsetting using a coal forge), but
like I said, propane is all or nothing. I tried to heat a different piece
of metal outside the propane forge, just in front of the mouth and
firebricks I use as a gates, but it did not heat.
I am frustratingly slow and it takes so many heats for me to accomplish
anything that it ticks me off. I am hurting for decent tongs, and that is
mostly what I am up to now. But the SOR is killing me, using a 4 pound
hammer. Got to find a lighter one, and build a trip or power hammer.
At least I'm having fun, and it keeps me off the streets.
Any imput would be appreciated...



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Posted by Trevor Jones on April 6, 2008, 12:05 pm
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theChas. wrote:
> The only method I can think of is to get a 30" tall piece of 2" pipe and
> fill it with water, so when I heat a piece of 1/4" dia rod (28 inches long)
> to upset, I can hold it by the hot end and quench all but the last 3/8
> inches, inside the pipe.
> My propane forge works well, but I cannot control it like a coal forge. The
> propane forge heats at least 4 inches of the rod. Then it just bends when I
> try to upset it, (to make rivets).
> I guess I could just whammie the rod end just once with the wedge side of my
> cross peen hammer, about 3/8 inches from the end. Then that should jam in
> the plate with the tapered hole. This may be the solution.
> My instructor showed me how to do this (upsetting using a coal forge), but
> like I said, propane is all or nothing. I tried to heat a different piece
> of metal outside the propane forge, just in front of the mouth and
> firebricks I use as a gates, but it did not heat.
> I am frustratingly slow and it takes so many heats for me to accomplish
> anything that it ticks me off. I am hurting for decent tongs, and that is
> mostly what I am up to now. But the SOR is killing me, using a 4 pound
> hammer. Got to find a lighter one, and build a trip or power hammer.
> At least I'm having fun, and it keeps me off the streets.
> Any imput would be appreciated...
>
>
>
Hold the rod in a vice, heat the end with a torch, form as required.

Or drill a hole through the side of your forge for the end to stick in.



Definately get some lighter hammers. You will find you have better
control and you will enjoy yourself more, if the hammer is approriate to
the size of the work. Ball peen hammers are cheap. The peens can be
reworked to provide you with other shapes, if you want. Grind the faces
to the shape you find best for you, too. For some work, a flat face is
nice, for others, a really rounded face works best. I like to radius the
edges to avoid sharp marks though.

I find I like to choke up on the hammer handle. It's more comfortable
for me. Last time someone snivelled at me that I should be holding the
hammer handle at the end, I cut the handle off where I wanted it to be.
Worked for me. :-)

Cheers
Trevor Jones


Posted by Bruce in Bangkok on April 6, 2008, 9:24 pm
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wrote:

>theChas. wrote:
>> The only method I can think of is to get a 30" tall piece of 2" pipe and
>> fill it with water, so when I heat a piece of 1/4" dia rod (28 inches long)
>> to upset, I can hold it by the hot end and quench all but the last 3/8
>> inches, inside the pipe.
>> My propane forge works well, but I cannot control it like a coal forge. The
>> propane forge heats at least 4 inches of the rod. Then it just bends when I
>> try to upset it, (to make rivets).
>> I guess I could just whammie the rod end just once with the wedge side of my
>> cross peen hammer, about 3/8 inches from the end. Then that should jam in
>> the plate with the tapered hole. This may be the solution.
>> My instructor showed me how to do this (upsetting using a coal forge), but
>> like I said, propane is all or nothing. I tried to heat a different piece
>> of metal outside the propane forge, just in front of the mouth and
>> firebricks I use as a gates, but it did not heat.
>> I am frustratingly slow and it takes so many heats for me to accomplish
>> anything that it ticks me off. I am hurting for decent tongs, and that is
>> mostly what I am up to now. But the SOR is killing me, using a 4 pound
>> hammer. Got to find a lighter one, and build a trip or power hammer.
>> At least I'm having fun, and it keeps me off the streets.
>> Any imput would be appreciated...
>>
>>
>>
> Hold the rod in a vice, heat the end with a torch, form as required.
>
> Or drill a hole through the side of your forge for the end to stick in.
>
>
>
> Definately get some lighter hammers. You will find you have better
>control and you will enjoy yourself more, if the hammer is approriate to
>the size of the work. Ball peen hammers are cheap. The peens can be
>reworked to provide you with other shapes, if you want. Grind the faces
>to the shape you find best for you, too. For some work, a flat face is
>nice, for others, a really rounded face works best. I like to radius the
>edges to avoid sharp marks though.
>
> I find I like to choke up on the hammer handle. It's more comfortable
>for me. Last time someone snivelled at me that I should be holding the
>hammer handle at the end, I cut the handle off where I wanted it to be.
>Worked for me. :-)
>
> Cheers
> Trevor Jones


Back in the days when Blacksmiths were a working breed all of their
heavier hammers had a longer then normal handle so that while they, in
a sense, "choked up on it there was a normal length of handle in front
of their hand. The longer handle extended behind their hand and rested
along their forearm to brace the hammer when it was being raised.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Posted by Trevor Jones on April 7, 2008, 8:28 am
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Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
>>theChas. wrote:
>>
>>>The only method I can think of is to get a 30" tall piece of 2" pipe and
>>>fill it with water, so when I heat a piece of 1/4" dia rod (28 inches long)
>>>to upset, I can hold it by the hot end and quench all but the last 3/8
>>>inches, inside the pipe.
>>>My propane forge works well, but I cannot control it like a coal forge. The
>>>propane forge heats at least 4 inches of the rod. Then it just bends when I
>>>try to upset it, (to make rivets).
>>>I guess I could just whammie the rod end just once with the wedge side of my
>>>cross peen hammer, about 3/8 inches from the end. Then that should jam in
>>>the plate with the tapered hole. This may be the solution.
>>>My instructor showed me how to do this (upsetting using a coal forge), but
>>>like I said, propane is all or nothing. I tried to heat a different piece
>>>of metal outside the propane forge, just in front of the mouth and
>>>firebricks I use as a gates, but it did not heat.
>>>I am frustratingly slow and it takes so many heats for me to accomplish
>>>anything that it ticks me off. I am hurting for decent tongs, and that is
>>>mostly what I am up to now. But the SOR is killing me, using a 4 pound
>>>hammer. Got to find a lighter one, and build a trip or power hammer.
>>>At least I'm having fun, and it keeps me off the streets.
>>>Any imput would be appreciated...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hold the rod in a vice, heat the end with a torch, form as required.
>>
>> Or drill a hole through the side of your forge for the end to stick in.
>>
>>
>>
>> Definately get some lighter hammers. You will find you have better
>>control and you will enjoy yourself more, if the hammer is approriate to
>>the size of the work. Ball peen hammers are cheap. The peens can be
>>reworked to provide you with other shapes, if you want. Grind the faces
>>to the shape you find best for you, too. For some work, a flat face is
>>nice, for others, a really rounded face works best. I like to radius the
>>edges to avoid sharp marks though.
>>
>> I find I like to choke up on the hammer handle. It's more comfortable
>>for me. Last time someone snivelled at me that I should be holding the
>>hammer handle at the end, I cut the handle off where I wanted it to be.
>>Worked for me. :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Trevor Jones
>
>
>
> Back in the days when Blacksmiths were a working breed all of their
> heavier hammers had a longer then normal handle so that while they, in
> a sense, "choked up on it there was a normal length of handle in front
> of their hand. The longer handle extended behind their hand and rested
> along their forearm to brace the hammer when it was being raised.
>
>
> Bruce-in-Bangkok
> (correct email address for reply)

I've run across a few self proclaimed experts, that were pretty
adamant that the ONLY hammer one could use was a 6 pound square faces
hand sledge. "'Cause that was what grandad used to sharpen plows".

You can tell some people, but you canna make em listen.

There's always room for another set of tongs, or a different hammer,
on the rack.

Some days you need the mass to strike with, and others, it just keeps
you from seeing what is happening...

I found that I would slowly migrate from one hammer to another as my
needs changed, and the work I was doing changed. Some days I found that
one or the other of two apparently same hammers, was "the" hammer to use.

I never did any commercial production, either, so I did not have bills
to pay, and could afford to take time, too.

Cheers
Trevor Jones


Posted by Bruce in Bangkok on April 7, 2008, 8:26 pm
Please log in for more thread options
wrote:

>Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>theChas. wrote:
>>>
>>>>The only method I can think of is to get a 30" tall piece of 2" pipe and
>>>>fill it with water, so when I heat a piece of 1/4" dia rod (28 inches long)
>>>>to upset, I can hold it by the hot end and quench all but the last 3/8
>>>>inches, inside the pipe.
>>>>My propane forge works well, but I cannot control it like a coal forge. The
>>>>propane forge heats at least 4 inches of the rod. Then it just bends when I
>>>>try to upset it, (to make rivets).
>>>>I guess I could just whammie the rod end just once with the wedge side of my
>>>>cross peen hammer, about 3/8 inches from the end. Then that should jam in
>>>>the plate with the tapered hole. This may be the solution.
>>>>My instructor showed me how to do this (upsetting using a coal forge), but
>>>>like I said, propane is all or nothing. I tried to heat a different piece
>>>>of metal outside the propane forge, just in front of the mouth and
>>>>firebricks I use as a gates, but it did not heat.
>>>>I am frustratingly slow and it takes so many heats for me to accomplish
>>>>anything that it ticks me off. I am hurting for decent tongs, and that is
>>>>mostly what I am up to now. But the SOR is killing me, using a 4 pound
>>>>hammer. Got to find a lighter one, and build a trip or power hammer.
>>>>At least I'm having fun, and it keeps me off the streets.
>>>>Any imput would be appreciated...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hold the rod in a vice, heat the end with a torch, form as required.
>>>
>>> Or drill a hole through the side of your forge for the end to stick in.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Definately get some lighter hammers. You will find you have better
>>>control and you will enjoy yourself more, if the hammer is approriate to
>>>the size of the work. Ball peen hammers are cheap. The peens can be
>>>reworked to provide you with other shapes, if you want. Grind the faces
>>>to the shape you find best for you, too. For some work, a flat face is
>>>nice, for others, a really rounded face works best. I like to radius the
>>>edges to avoid sharp marks though.
>>>
>>> I find I like to choke up on the hammer handle. It's more comfortable
>>>for me. Last time someone snivelled at me that I should be holding the
>>>hammer handle at the end, I cut the handle off where I wanted it to be.
>>>Worked for me. :-)
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Trevor Jones
>>
>>
>>
>> Back in the days when Blacksmiths were a working breed all of their
>> heavier hammers had a longer then normal handle so that while they, in
>> a sense, "choked up on it there was a normal length of handle in front
>> of their hand. The longer handle extended behind their hand and rested
>> along their forearm to brace the hammer when it was being raised.
>>
>>
>> Bruce-in-Bangkok
>> (correct email address for reply)
>
> I've run across a few self proclaimed experts, that were pretty
>adamant that the ONLY hammer one could use was a 6 pound square faces
>hand sledge. "'Cause that was what grandad used to sharpen plows".
>
> You can tell some people, but you canna make em listen.
>
> There's always room for another set of tongs, or a different hammer,
>on the rack.
>
> Some days you need the mass to strike with, and others, it just keeps
>you from seeing what is happening...
>
> I found that I would slowly migrate from one hammer to another as my
>needs changed, and the work I was doing changed. Some days I found that
>one or the other of two apparently same hammers, was "the" hammer to use.
>
> I never did any commercial production, either, so I did not have bills
>to pay, and could afford to take time, too.
>
> Cheers
> Trevor Jones


I'm not a blacksmith but I am old enough that when I was a lad many
farms had a blacksmith shop and my father had a forge in the corner of
the workshop. When I was 12, or so, I used to work 'till bedtime
(actually bath time), making "indian" knives.

But, anyway. As I remember, all blacksmith shops had a multitude of
hammers, ranging from little ones to two handed sledges and the smith
would use the hammer most appropriate to the job. Tongs were usually
hung on a long rod what ran down the side of the forge so you could
grab the right set easily.

One of the things I find a bit pretentious with the "white shoe"
smiths is the preconception that things MUST be done this way or that
way when back when it was just a job, people did it any way that they
could to get the job done. I once say a smith build a large bonfire
and keep it burning for a day and a night to get a large "I" beam hot
enough to straighten it.

Nail making was a winter job. Not much going on when there was 6 feet
of snow all over the ground so the smith made nails, or maybe tools
like hoes and shovels (although by the time I was around most of that
kind of stuff was store bought).



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


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