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forge pics MatthewK 02-19-2007
Posted by Kyle J. on February 22, 2007, 7:58 pm
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You still end up with some seriously brittle steel in the final piece - even
if it is all in the edge it will chip badly the first time you smack
somthing hard with it. No sir - I would not try it. If it's being done
there is more to the story than meets the eye.

GA


>>.....My gut and experience tell me there is no way you can get away with
>>no temper unless you are woking in a low/medium carbon steel in the first
>>place.
>
> Case construction and clay-mask quenching.
> Sorry; that's two ways.
>
> Chas
>



Posted by Chas on February 22, 2007, 8:32 pm
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> You still end up with some seriously brittle steel in the final piece -
> even
> if it is all in the edge it will chip badly the first time you smack
> somthing hard with it.

That's one of the reasons that Japanese swords chip so badly when you hit
something hard with it. That's why they counsel that it should never touch
anything but silk, flesh and the mouth of the scabbard.

Chas



Posted by Knives,com on February 22, 2007, 8:59 pm
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I think your first instinct is correct Chas, that the thin slip they put on
the edge makes a difference alright ! And that there is enough heat bleeding
down to the edge from the heavily clayed part of the blade to temper it a
bit. They are not all that brittle really.

Daithi

>> You still end up with some seriously brittle steel in the final piece -
>> even
>> if it is all in the edge it will chip badly the first time you smack
>> somthing hard with it.
>
> That's one of the reasons that Japanese swords chip so badly when you hit
> something hard with it. That's why they counsel that it should never touch
> anything but silk, flesh and the mouth of the scabbard.
>
> Chas
>



Posted by Chas on February 22, 2007, 10:41 pm
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>I think your first instinct is correct Chas, that the thin slip they put on
>the edge makes a difference alright !

It's not really all that 'thin'. It's a mixture of stone, mud, charcoal dust
and steel powder. It's sometimes so thick that they supported it with thin
wire.

> And that there is enough heat bleeding down to the edge from the heavily
> clayed part of the blade to temper it a bit. They are not all that brittle
> really.

The edge is- and generally made from a different steel than the core, the
cheeks or the back of the blade. Some of the blade, like the core, is
virtually mild steel- heat treatment wouldn't make a difference in any case.

Chas



Posted by Chilla on February 20, 2007, 4:59 pm
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Hey Chas,

You have to remember it's pretty hot in Japan most of the time anyway ;-)


Regards Charles

Chas wrote:

> Nah <g>
> The optimum time for quenching Japanese swords was in February, ims. The
> quenching medium was preheated by quenching bars of metal heated in the
> forge. The quench was sometimes 'reduced seawater' (saturated 'salt'
> quench), sometimes had decayed vegetable matter to 'cushion' the quench
> (leaves) and so on.
> Water is a very active quench. It's really hard on the material in terms of
> twisting/torquing the blade. A big part of Japanese swordmaking was
> straightening out the 'hard' blade after quenching.
> If you're going to quench in water, the first/best fix is saturated salt,
> and heating it until it's distinctly warm to the hand, but not hot. Another
> is a 'float' of oil on the top of the water.
>


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