hydraulic forging press?
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hydraulic forging press? granpaw 10-26-2006
Posted by granpaw on October 26, 2006, 11:18 pm
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Anyone know of any plans out there for building a hydraulic forging press?
Could something like that have a fairly fast action or slower, more like a
bearing press?
I would really like to try a flypress but the price is a bit much for me.
tia
granpaw

Posted by granpaw on October 27, 2006, 6:07 am
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> Anyone know of any plans out there for building a hydraulic forging
> press? Could something like that have a fairly fast action or slower,
> more like a bearing press?
> I would really like to try a flypress but the price is a bit much for
> me. tia
> granpaw
>

Duh..
Googled and found a few sites such as Dan Fogg's, but otherwise not much in
the way of 'free' documentation can be found.


Posted by Charly the Bastard on October 27, 2006, 7:06 am
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granpaw wrote:

> Anyone know of any plans out there for building a hydraulic forging press?
> Could something like that have a fairly fast action or slower, more like a
> bearing press?
> I would really like to try a flypress but the price is a bit much for me.
> tia
> granpaw

No matter how you slice it, it's gonna be expensive. To get a fast action
you'll need a lot of flow from the pump, as well as high pressure, or a really
short stroke length which will limit the flexibility of the rig. Big high
pressure pumps aren't cheap; you get what you pay for. If you go the low
presure route, you'll need a large actuator piston to develop the force so you
can concentrate it in a small working area. Auto power steering pumps put up
around 500 psi, but you can run several in parallel to up the flow rate, and
they're fairly cheap and easy to get. You might consider an accumulator based
system, where the pump charges an accumulator which then feeds the power
piston. This will give you a high flow rate but a slow cycle rate, so you'll
get a fast stroke but slow recharge between strokes. Needless to say, having
lots of high pressure oil stored in tanks and plumbing can be dangerous, so
build with lots of overhead. SAFETY. If I was going the build one, I'd use at
least a 100% pressure overhead in the high pressure side ie 1000 lb limit for
a 500 lb system. Good luck...

Charly




Posted by granpaw on October 27, 2006, 7:20 pm
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> granpaw wrote:
>
>> Anyone know of any plans out there for building a hydraulic forging
>> press? Could something like that have a fairly fast action or slower,
>> more like a bearing press?
>> I would really like to try a flypress but the price is a bit much for
>> me. tia
>> granpaw
>
> No matter how you slice it, it's gonna be expensive. To get a fast
> action you'll need a lot of flow from the pump, as well as high
> pressure, or a really short stroke length which will limit the
> flexibility of the rig. Big high pressure pumps aren't cheap; you get
> what you pay for. If you go the low presure route, you'll need a
> large actuator piston to develop the force so you can concentrate it
> in a small working area. Auto power steering pumps put up around 500
> psi, but you can run several in parallel to up the flow rate, and
> they're fairly cheap and easy to get. You might consider an
> accumulator based system, where the pump charges an accumulator which
> then feeds the power piston. This will give you a high flow rate but a
> slow cycle rate, so you'll get a fast stroke but slow recharge between
> strokes. Needless to say, having lots of high pressure oil stored in
> tanks and plumbing can be dangerous, so build with lots of overhead.
> SAFETY. If I was going the build one, I'd use at least a 100% pressure
> overhead in the high pressure side ie 1000 lb limit for a 500 lb
> system. Good luck...
>
> Charly
>
>
>
>

Thanks for the info Charly.
I ahve about twenty vehicles out here in various stages of dis-repair so I
will be looking into the power steering pump method.
I need to learn some hydraulics anyway so this will be a good starting
point.

granpaw

Posted by Steve Smith on October 27, 2006, 8:52 pm
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I built a 30 ton forging press from Jim Batson's plans, which I highly
recommend. You can get them from Norm Larson (larbooks@impulse.net)
among other places (Norm is a pretty fine guy). There are two sets, the
first has a huge wealth of general info on how to put together a
hydraulic system like this and has plans for a floor standing I beam
based press. The second booklet has details on how to build a tabletop
model (same kind of tonnage, just sort of folded).

They are fine tools, you can do all kinds of stuff with thick metal. You
can't do a lot of forging on small stock. I've used mine to draw down
tong reins (with fullering dies). You can also take a piece of 3" round,
8" long and put it on end (hot) and smash it into a grapefruit sized
piece. I like taking large hex stock and squishing it into barrel shapes.

The way you make them move fast enough and have enough pressure without
a huge motor is to use a log splitter pump. These pumps are two
speed--at low pressure they pump fast, when the pressure goes above a
threshold, they slow down (about 4:1 I think). This way they don't chew
up a lot of horsepower. My 30 ton press moves at one inch per second
(no load) and runs on a 2HP motor. Their shafts can't take side
loading--you have to drive them with a coupler, not a pulley and belt.

If you're a good scrounge (very likely), the pump will be the most
expensive item. Cylinders can be bought new/surplus/used (see below); I
got mine at a country junkyard that had a lot of tractor parts. I bought
two 6" cylinders out of a trash truck for $75 (total).

Two mistakes in one that I made: the logsplitter pumps are rated to
operate at 3600 rpm. This is probably tolerable if they are on a gas
engine. On an electric motor, they absolutely scream. Don't run them
this fast, run them at 1800. Part two was that I originally set my
press up for 2" per second movement. This is ok if you're forging, but
the first time you bend something it gets really scary. 1" per second is
plenty fast.

I built the I beam type. Mine is a 7' long beam with an 18" web (this is
a C style press instead of an H style). On the face of the beam is
welded a 3/4" x 8" wide piece of dozer blade for reinforcement. It is
large and heavy. Unless you absolutely must have a C style press, I
really recommend the H type. These work well in a 'table top' model. I'd
do it that way if I was doing it over.

A press *excels* at making pattern welded steel. Tack weld a billet
together on a handle (say 2" square and 6-8" long), flux it, get it hot,
and make it maybe 1/8 " thinner in the press. I do it once more just to
make sure (reheat and flux), then I go to drawing it out, flat or on
edge doesn't matter. No quicker way to make a bunch of pattern weld.

When I'm making tooling for the press, I try to figure out how to get
the most done in one stroke. Many times that's all you get before you
have to put the piece back in the fire (the dies suck the heat right out).

Steve

granpaw wrote:

>Anyone know of any plans out there for building a hydraulic forging press?
>Could something like that have a fairly fast action or slower, more like a
>bearing press?
>I would really like to try a flypress but the price is a bit much for me.
>tia
>granpaw
>
>

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